ich is out into the future. we just had an election. four years say long way from now. and i think it's better to stay focused on the things that i'm doing now. >> schieffer: i want to ask you about the current negotiations going on here to find some kind of an agreement to erase the deficit or at least put us back on a sound financial footing. would you encourage the republicans to support some kind of increase in revenues if that's what it took to get an agreement? >> i wouldn't-- i wouldn't say no heck, no, and that's it. what i would do is advocate policies that would create high growth because the revenue collected by government when you're growing at 3. the 5% instead of 1.5% is exponentially more. and high growth over a stand period of time by having a patriotic energy policy, bringing regulation to the 21st century immigration reform would be a good one reforming our education system,

tax policy-- all those things would yield, i think far more revenue. that should be where there's the common ground. and in return, there should be some give and take as it relates to entitlement reform. you could get to a place where our fiscal house would be in order if we achieved that. the president has not been willing to discuss that but in the last week, he's begun to at least reach out to republicans which is quite encouraging. >> schieffer: do you think this is a good thing what he's doing here? i mean, can he actually get something done? >> yeah glu really think that's possible? >> you know, there's-- there's two views on this. one is that he doesn't want to have an agreement. he wants to gain control of the house, and then carry out his vision of how government should work in our country. and the other is that perhaps frustrated by the gridlock that he hasn't reached out enough, and that he's beginning to try to do that. i don't know the president's motivations. i do know that if he reaches out and builds a dialogue where

there's greater trust and there's a personal relationship, it matters. it's mattered for all presidents. and it would matter for him. >> schieffer: all right well, it's very nice to have you governor bush, and we hope you come see us again, thank you very much. >> take care. thank you. >> schieffer: and joining us now "wall street journal" columnist peggy noonan and cbs news political director john dickerson. i just want to talk to the two of you. what's going on here, peggy? for as long as i can remember, jeb bush was seen as-- by hispanics, at least-- as the most enlightened person on immigration. he has always favored a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. now he write this book, and suddenly he's not for a path. >> year, it's a little confusing. oddly enough, the book was written to make clear in a way what a republican approach to immigration might fairly and generously and justly be.

so i think it's a little-- a little problem that the-- that the change, if it is a change on the path to citizenship -- >> but this is not something by somebody who misspoke. who said, "oh i said something i didn't mean to say." this is directly the opposite of what the position he had taken before and then this week, as-- or last week, he was going around doing these interviews to promote his new book, he seemed to go back and say "well no, that's not really a change." i think at best, john, he seems to have gotten off to kind of a slow start here if he is thinking about running for president, if that's what this is about. >> crashing on the launchpad if this is a 2016 run. i think the fairest and most generous explanation what he was trying to do is hit a target. he was trying to say "here's where the republican party is now. i'm going to inch them along here to a new place." what happened in the time between when he wrote the book and today is the republican party jumped over his target.

they have moved faster than jeb bush anticipated they would be. so his book is not a statement of clear principle. his book was an attempt to kind of move them along but they moved faster than he did which ends him up in this funny place. what's your principle governor bush? is your principle pathway to citizenship or is your pathway something else? that's what people are having difficulty finding out. is your book principle or a path to get the republican party to where you ultimately want them to do. >> schieffer: peggy let's talk about strategy around here, the president holding now famous dinners with people from other parties. >> and lunches. >> schieffer: that might not be news, but suddenly, it is. >> well, this is the new washington where it is sort of amazing if a president gets together with senators and congressmen. that having been said, it's good it's happening. and i talked to a number of-- at least the senators who were at dinner with the president the

other night, and they felt impressed. they felt the meeting went well, everybody was forthcoming and candid both sides. the president made clear certain constraints he was operating under. so did the republicans. i think the key-- or at least as i was told by the people i talked to-- the key here is will the president stay engaged and put the prestige of the presidency behind calling meetings convening keeping people talking and also getting his arms around his own democratic senators. we tend to play this as a problem between the democratic president and republican senators. there's three problems -- democratic president democrats in the senate who need someone to help them along and republicans in the senate who need to make their own decisions. i think if the president stays involved this could be really promising. >> schieffer: what do you think, john. >> he will stay involved. you talk to people in the white

house, and they say he will stay involved. there's an interesting thing we're watching here. the president is trying to figure out how much communication is good and useful communication. on immigration reform, for example, the republicans are saying him,"stay out of it. we don't need your help. you put your fingerprints on this kills it." in this case what the white house decided is they're out of the crisis moat moad of budgeting. they're back to a slower pace. the president can play a role here. he hasn't had good relationships with the leaderes, mitch mcconnell in the senate or john boehner in the house. so he's now going around to the members directly. and the president feels those members -- you heard jeb bush say the president never talked about entitlement rereform. that's just dead wrong. the president believes these members don't get that message. what the real republican message is yes, he talked about entitlement reform but it's tiny little stuff and it needs to be bigger. and the president figures if he's going to get the swap, the

swap from revenue from tax changes in entitlement changes if that deal is going to be made, the president is going to have to kind of make it one by one with republican senators, hope to build something in the senate that then can pass the house if john boehner lets it come up for a vote and lets it pass the house with a minority of republicans which is a key threshold. that's the kind of dream scenario but the white house is very realistic. >> schieffer: just quickly to you, peggy, do you really think there is a chance they can get something done here? >> sure. it's a beautiful day in washington. it's a gorgeous pre-spring day. your thoughts turn to optimism. i actually think it is possible. i think it would take a little bit of a change on the president's part. i think he has to build trust with republicans who have occasionally come to question his good faith in negotiations. so there's a lot of work to do. you know, normally, i'm a big fan of a president of the united states and senators coming forward and speaking to the american people.

this might be a great time for everybody to lower the volume, talk to each other don't be out there trying to score point for your side. . >> schieffer: all right. we are going to take a break here, and then we're going to come back and talk about who the next pope is going to be. and i hope our panel will be able to reveal to us just who that is.

>> schieffer: we're back now with peggy noonan, and i have to say, john dickerson's hair did not go to gray during the commercial there. that's our old friend carl bernstein of "vanity fair," who is with us. also, sally quinn who writes about religion for the "washington post," and greg tobin, who writes books about the papacy. his latest is the "the good pope." carl, of course, also wrote a book about the pope. let's just start out sally.

what's going to happen here? >> well, i wish i knew. but i will say one thing the problem here with the papacy is that it is on the road to becoming irrelevant if they don't make some drastic changes. and so i don't know whether this conclave will be able to find somebody who can reform the church. but the problem they have is power. lord acon said absolute eye mean power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. and i think one of the problem is there has been too much centralized power and the pope has a pipeline to god and then everybody else has to go through the pope. i think that's got to change. so i think if these cardinals are smart they will realize that they need to have some kind of reform. and they will realize that it has to be decentralized. >> schieffer: i'll tell you there are a lot of catholics i must say who probably agree with that. american catholics in a recent

poll say 62% of them say the next pope should allow priests to marry by a margin of 64% to 28%. catholics feel the church this ease the ban on contraception. so obviously they do have in mind some kind of reforms. greg, do you think we're going to see any of that? >> i think that over the next 10-20 years we will see a couple things. one, a continuation of the absop union within the church the second vatican council and the reformed put in place and the direction for the church has still yet to be finally or fully decided upon. secondly, catholics also-- and i think this is very important-- also look for a figure-- and more than just a symbol but a real sense of unity within the church. i think that's very important for catholics.

because catholic, as meaning universal, is something that encompasses the entire world. and if you look at other religious denominations especially in recent history the past generation or so, there's been a lot of disintegration versus i think the need, the religious need for a figure that will provide some unity for them. >> schieffer: carl, what's your thought? how do you see this unfolding? do you think it's going to take all week for them to come to a decision or is this something-- >> i can't guess on that. >> schieffer: have they already got their minds made up when they go in there? >> no, they don't have their minds made up. that's the history that it takes some real discussion among them. but i think we have to talk really very directly about what the problem is, and that is a male unauthority unquestioned male authority in this institution that is out of touch with the rest of the world. and this male authority and problems of sex and gender and pedophile criminal priestes, according to the american

catholic hierarchy-- one out of 25 priestes, i believe, has been believed too have some kind of problem with pedophile involvement. this is a terrible problem and it comes from the institution itself covering up that this problem has been. i would hope that like in the time of john xxiii who you wrote about, greg, the next pope will be moved by the holy spirit, as they say in the conclave, to conceive a vatican iii to look at the church in the modern world as happened in vatican ii, and confront the relationship of the church to questions of sex gender male priesthood, it's not part of the theology itself. it's a later day invention. it's not part of christ's gospel. this is a great institution. its catholic social teachings is one of the great contributions

to the world the catholic church edkatz more people, cares for more sick people than any institution in the world. does it probably better than any institution in the world and it's got this great mission that's been undermind. and until the church can deal with what's undermining it in a basic way without putting a pretty wrapper around it, like cardinal dolan was talking about here last week. it's more than a wrapper that's needed something basic. >> schieffer: peggy, you're catholic, right? >> i am. >> schieffer: and what are you you-- what do you as a catholic want to see here? >> well, let me say, first of all, one of the things catholics say to each other when they look at who's in the church is wow. here comes everybody. catholicism is 1.2 billion people all over the world. there's the church in africa. the church in the west. it is varied. it is extraordinary. it is bubbling. it is ever evolving. so that's one thing. -- the american catholic polling

that you mentioned, it is totally true that there's this great bubbling of liberal positions on what we call the social issues. at the same time, a poll came out this week that said 77% of american catholics think pope benedict did a great job. and he was a great pope. now, he is at the opposite from what they say they're for. so there's a great deal of-- let me just say bubbling because i can't think of another word. there's extraordinary variety and the ability to accept tension and disagreement within the church. what would i love to see? i would love to see a pope who comes forward who is joyous anyway, in spite of condition of the world and in spite of the condition of the church, someone who doesn't have a sad furrowed brow look but it sully reacting to the world with a-- is actually reacting to the world with pleasure and a smile.

i think he has two impossible but necessary tasks that must be done. the first is showing that the church has turned the corner on the scandal. the second is bringing the message of christ, the fundamental basic message of christ to the post-christian west and to the rising nations of the south and of the east. those are two big huge jobs. it means stay home and clean house. but go outside and bring jesus. that's really hard. but i think that's what he has to do. >> schieffer: even in matters like this, we always look for the home town angle. ( laughter ) do you think there is any chance that an american could be named pope? because we've always been told, those of us who look at this from the outside there's no way they're going to pick somebody from a super power that politically that just didn't work. >> i think there's an infitesimal chance. i think no one in history has had as good a chance as cardinal

dolan because he is such an outsized personality. they all know him and respect him. he has made such an impression from the very beginning when he receivedded his red hat just a year ago. and i think that's a factor that will enter into their decision making as well. they tend to go to a fescker faces, people-- fresher faces people who entered the college of cardinals later than someone who has been in forever. the exception to that rule, of course was benedict, cardinal ratzinger last time out because he had been the-- risep to the deanship of the college of cardinals. but as far as an american goes, i would be the most surprised person in the world -- >> what about someone from, say a third world country? that's where most catholics now. >> yes. >> bork it's going to have to be somebody who can get in and clean up the mess. and i think that's one of the reasons that ratzinger stepped down is because it was just-- the corruption, you know, financial and sexual corruption was just overwhelming.

but the problem they're going to face is they might choose a cardinal who's got an unfortunate history that they don't know about. i mean, every day somebody is coming out-- cardinal obrierng cardinal mahoney-- every day somebody is coming out with a history. the other thing is the church is farther and farther away from, as peggy said, what jesus intend. jesus says whoever boosts himself up will be lowered and whoever lowers themselves will be boosted up. the whole issue is what is does the papacy mean anyway? >> schieffer: you raise an interesting point. there may be something-- you know, most jobs in hernandez society, they run a background check on them. i mean, we're talking talking about gun control here. ( laughter ) getting background checks. >> that hasn't worked. >> it doesn't work -- >> do they, peggy-- and i do not

mean this to be disrespectful in any way. i'm a great respecter of the catholic church. ( laughter ) >> look, it is a divine and yet profoundly human institution. the vatican. sally, you quote jesus christ well, but remember, he said to saint peter before he was called saint peter on this rock i will build my church. and he said even the fires of hell will not prevail against it. sometimes the cardinals get a little frustrating because they act like eoh good, it doesn't matter what we do. it will always continue. i don't think that's probably the correct message to have been taken out of that, but the church has been around for a long time. it will be around for a long time. may i say i think an american is possible a little bit, because the thing that used to keep an american cardinal from being picked was that america was a super power. in europe, initially they don't see us as quite the super power we were.

oddly enough, that problem gives a little boost to the american cardinals. >> schieffer: so if it isab american this will be-- someone will write a book about the decline of the west. >> well, they can write that one way. >> there's another possibility a north american. there's a cardinal in canada. >> ouellette. >> ouellett. both dolan and ouellett went to the college in rome. as the world watches this conclave, they are going to see in a see in a different context than perhaps eight years ago or when john paul ii became pope, this 100-and-and-some males getting together to choose another male, and another 120 males under him for the worlds 1.2 billion catholics. it seems to me this is going to be on a world stage as an

anomaly that has never quite been regarded as such an anomaly before. >> it's on the way to irrelevancy if they don't start including women and certainly people of other color. and ultimately, homosexuals. so i mean, they're all against homoswat homoswullity, even though so many priests are gay -- >> you can't say that as a fact. i mean-- >> if you have friends in the priesthood, as i do, friends in the priesthood will tell you that they have other gay friends in the priesthood. >> schieffer: we'll have to leave this for another day. >> day. >> we've gone very far afield here. but--

(woman) 3 days of walking to give a breast cancer survivor a lifetime-- that's definitely a fair trade. whoo! you walk with friends, you meet new friends and you keep those friendships. it was such a beautiful experience. (woman) ♪ and it's beautiful ♪ ♪ undeniable ♪ (woman) why walk 60 miles in the boldest breast cancer event in history? because everyone deserves a lifetime. visit the3day.org to register or to request more information today. ♪ burning like a fire ♪ ♪ building

up from deep inside ♪ it was 3 days of pure joy. susan g. komen's investments in early detection and treatment have helped reduce breast cancer mortality in the u.s. by 33% since 1990. help us continue serving the millions of women and men with breast cancer who still need us every day. register for the 3-day now. (woman) it's just been an amazing, amazing journey. i love these people. ♪ and it's beautiful ♪ >> schieffer: we want to take note that the cbs radio world news roundup america's longest running news broadcast celebrate its 75th anniversary this week. >> tonight the world trembles... >> schieffer: the series debuted on march 13, 1938, the day of the nazi invasion of austria. and it was on that broadcast that edward r murrow filed his

first live report for cbs news. back in a minute.

save up to 40% on closeout sets from beautyrest and posturepedic. save hundreds on floor samples and closeout inventory. the beautyrest and posturepedic closeout sale is on now at sleep train. ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪

>> schieffer: and that is it for us today. we'll be back next week with the chairman of the house budget committee, paul ryan. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

a horrific accident on a rural road, six teenagers killed when an suv rolls over and ends up in a pond. they don't want anyone to miss out while they move to a new home so it is taking itself on the road. workers, starting tomorrow, the worry that businesses have about the minimum wage hike. >> good evening. tomorrow san jose's new $10 minimum wage goes into effect. approved by voters last fall. kpix finds out how leaders hope the increase will bring in business. >> reporter: with a line like this they are hard at work and their pay checks will better reflect it. >> very, very happy about that. >> reporter: smith works two

minimum wage jobs and still has to borrow money from his parents. thanks to a voter approved initiative in november, the minimum wage will go from $8 to $10. giving thousands of workers a wage. >> for me, personally, my friends t make ace big difference. >> reporter: soon, you will be able to see new signs in store front windows encouraging people to spend the money they are earning here in san jose. >> this is the new logo for the earn and spend campaign that kicks off tomorrow. we know that people increasingly make decisions about where they are going to shop and dine on an ethical basis. >> labor unions and businesses are hoping knowing workers are paid fair wages will bring in more customers. the owner of phil's coffee in san jose noticed a difference since he gave raises to many of his workers in january. >> a lot of employees are happier which makes customer